tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post1822985903108267812..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: When The Teacher Is ReadySarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-85275419540943595722010-05-10T17:34:24.203-04:002010-05-10T17:34:24.203-04:00Okay, I'm way behind here. (Sorry, life, etc....Okay, I'm way behind here. (Sorry, life, etc. got in my way again.) My short list of things I kept:<br /><br />Dave Freer - Transitioning<br />Sarah Hoyt - Books on Writing<br />Sarah Hoyt - Rules of the Sarah<br />Sarah Hoyt - The Thing and the Half of the Thing<br />Amanda Green - What you need before you query (actually, this one was part of a post, and I snagged the bit I needed)<br />Rowena Cory Daniells - Prologues, do you Skip Them?<br />Amanda Green - Critique Groups<br />Kate - Overthrowing the Evil Tyrant<br />Sarah Hoyt - Watching Yourself Go By<br /><br />Mind you, these are just the ones that I thought I'd want to keep for future reference. There are a lot of others that I just found interesting, but I didn't NEED them in the same way. And some were just fun. :)<br /><br />Generally, I find you all an interesting read all the time. You're pretty much the only blog I follow religiously at this point. Not sure if that says more about you or more about me. ;)Ellyllnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-17509356203626583832010-05-06T09:47:28.050-04:002010-05-06T09:47:28.050-04:00Yes, Kate, you are correct,t his has to do with ma...Yes, Kate, you are correct,t his has to do with market pressures. It's so hard to keep an agent's or publisher's attention these days that everyone is looking for the magical "perfect beginning." Rita is correct nonethless. If the end is "something goes here" the READER (who should always be our focus) will not buy the next book.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-68270797495792221892010-05-06T09:46:03.835-04:002010-05-06T09:46:03.835-04:00Rita,
And the endings are VERY important. It'...Rita,<br /><br />And the endings are VERY important. It's what makes you reach for the author's next book or not.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-58385613552886285782010-05-06T09:45:29.059-04:002010-05-06T09:45:29.059-04:00Synova,
ARE you look for a free copy of Darkship ...Synova,<br /><br />ARE you look for a free copy of Darkship Thieves? [VBG} Send me your snail mail!Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-31188378877200976942010-05-06T06:30:26.072-04:002010-05-06T06:30:26.072-04:00Maybe I should post the chocolate-coated fairy rec...Maybe I should post the chocolate-coated fairy recipe? To be fair, it starts with "first, catch your fairy".<br /><br />Rita, I think there are some posts in the archives on when/how to end, but more could show up any time. Not my post this week, though :)Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-76882257280154794502010-05-06T05:32:26.643-04:002010-05-06T05:32:26.643-04:00There's quite a lot said about beginnings thes...There's quite a lot said about beginnings these days, where to jump in and begin a story ... but nothing much about endings. Where, how, when to end. Any posts about that definitely appreciated.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00505483687054513944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-22074248162175338172010-05-06T01:55:24.196-04:002010-05-06T01:55:24.196-04:00Hm... my antagonist, whomever he or she is, knows ...Hm... my antagonist, whomever he or she is, knows about my protagonist because she left three henchmen on the walls and ceiling of their laboratory.<br /><br />Obviously, something would be done about that.<br /><br />(Heh... this has helped already. I suppose it's one of those "know it but need to see it written" sorts of things.)<br /><br />I sort of like the idea of a single POV character. Has anyone tried writing to develop the villain and then taking her out?Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-44981465952794609252010-05-06T01:26:55.491-04:002010-05-06T01:26:55.491-04:00Synova
um... that process sort of describes how I ...Synova<br />um... that process sort of describes how I wrote Draw One In The Dark... um....<br /><br />Guys did I do a post on "the rolling plot" (which to be honest, if you read the first HP could be called The Rowling Plot)? If not, I'll do it later.<br /><br />Villains. Uh... okay, Kate has done this and I guess I should cover my method. The short version is: care as much for them as for your hero, have as "good" at least for them reasons for what they're doing. Mind you, you might go through years and years of books flipping on you. Don't let them. Anti-heros get tiresome and they're sometimes hard to sell.<br />Consider making your villains admirable people with a fatal flaw a MILE wide. ;)Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-2066462284967414022010-05-06T01:24:03.191-04:002010-05-06T01:24:03.191-04:00Chris Mc,
You're a bad man. Think shame on y...Chris Mc,<br /><br />You're a bad man. Think shame on yourself. Or do you truly want my younger son and Dave to speculate on which part of the mermaid to cook again?<br /><br />For the unenlightened that "Chimera cordon Bleu" conducted by Dave Freer AND my older son was the funniest panel I have ever attended. And if you had a strong stomach, all the hints on how to cook magical creatures -- with a lot of curry, seems like! -- would have you rolling on the floor. It had one of their co-panelists turning a lovely shade of lavender, though. ;)Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-61304507112874227032010-05-06T01:10:38.812-04:002010-05-06T01:10:38.812-04:00I seem to have a terrible time with antagonists. ...I seem to have a terrible time with antagonists. I feel like they ought to be vital to propelling the plot along but they never seem to want to do anything. Uncooperative bastiches. ;-P<br /><br />On the subject of listening too closely to "how-to", I think that one of the most useful things I've ever heard was a fellow talking about his process who described it in a way that would be impossible to follow. He said something (author at a con, I don't remember who) to the tune of... I write a hundred pages of them trying to solve a problem and then throw a new problem at them, I throw a bomb in there, "boom!", and then a hundred pages after that, "boom!", and a hundred pages after that, "boom!"<br /><br />That's impossible "how-to" advice and maybe that freed me from any possible compulsion to try to follow it but that was one instance that actually felt like a light-bulb moment. I didn't think for a moment that it had to be a bomb (boom!) or every hundred pages or anything. I just suddenly realized that I could DO stuff to my characters... anything I wanted.<br /><br />It was a very cool moment.<br /><br />(Now if I could just talk the blinking antagonists into throwing some bombs.)Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-29617058954047373582010-05-05T22:16:35.971-04:002010-05-05T22:16:35.971-04:00More hints on cooking magical creatures please:)More hints on cooking magical creatures please:)Chris McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883058490702361466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-3304474120635764282010-05-05T18:38:23.941-04:002010-05-05T18:38:23.941-04:00Jim -- A with a star.
Guest posts are a bit of a ...Jim -- A with a star.<br /><br />Guest posts are a bit of a puzzler, as we'll have to ask the guest [g]Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-8769088693748019502010-05-05T18:37:51.465-04:002010-05-05T18:37:51.465-04:00Pam,
well, I think we have a good group and being ...Pam,<br />well, I think we have a good group and being Heinlein's child, I believe in paying it forward.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-2964985435016001412010-05-05T18:37:00.942-04:002010-05-05T18:37:00.942-04:00Rowena,
Hey, I'm recovering from pneumonia an...Rowena,<br /><br />Hey, I'm recovering from pneumonia and it was near midnight. Foremost in my mind was getting people workign for me, I guess.<br /><br />Actually [g] I used to be a very demanding teacher!Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-6785305280163458362010-05-05T17:43:36.390-04:002010-05-05T17:43:36.390-04:00Well, I'v done my homework. Here are some of t...Well, I'v done my homework. Here are some of the posts that I've found useful and a little blurb about why. Hopefully my comments make sense. For the sake of time, I've only gone back about eight weeks or so. That doesn't mean that there was nothing useful before that, but I just ran short of time and I can never remember who posted what when, so I had to go back and look to make the list make sense.<br /><br />May 3 Transitions and avoiding the boring part. <br /><br />May 1 How to use myths/importance of doing so. A great way to find new source material and (hopefully) figure out how to use it correctly<br /><br />April 28 Promotion is important<br /><br />April 21 How to get published/importance of continuing to try<br /><br />April 17 Writing Process<br /><br />April 13 After reading this post about prologues I'm thinking about changing the beginning of my WiP. Definitely worth thinking about.<br /><br />April 3 Religion in fantasy....some of my favorite characters to read and write about are fantasy priests/paladins<br /><br />April 1 Very important to writing stories with an evil overlord, but I had never thought about it this way<br /><br />March 29 - What NOT to do. Something we should all keep in mind.<br /><br />March 25 (both posts) Plotting is something I need to work on. This is a good way to think about things<br /><br />March 20 "The line that the character will not cross" This seems obvious, but it's important to keep in mind<br /><br />March 19 Fleshing out characters. Very important. Bad characters = Bad Book<br /><br />March 18 - See notes about March 19<br /><br />March 17 - Different take on how to build a character<br /><br />March 11 (Kate's post)- A good take on not just the problems of writing a book, but of the problems experienced by the characters IN the book<br /><br />March 4 - Again what NOT to do, but a different list of stuff<br /><br />February 28 - Good reminders of how to get things done<br /><br />February 25 (Kate's post again) Word choice. Very Important<br /><br />February 24 What to write, why and how to decide. 'Nuff saidJim McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12524898692671838600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-47935983889704167082010-05-05T17:08:35.843-04:002010-05-05T17:08:35.843-04:00Sarah,
You asked our blog readers which posts the...Sarah,<br /><br />You asked our blog readers which posts they've found useful.<br /><br />Trust you to give them homework!Rowena Cory Daniellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995983965583233914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-48440147176198619352010-05-05T12:33:39.408-04:002010-05-05T12:33:39.408-04:00I like the idea of a writing book coming out of th...I like the idea of a writing book coming out of this. Some blogs, say, about the state of the publishing industry are best left as a blog, they'll age to fast for a book.<br /><br />But all the advice about hooks and plotting and characterizations are ageless. Along with getting past the blocks and doldrums, how to fit writing time into a busy schedule. Business advice about agents, publishers, contracts. The difference between self-publishing and vanity publishing. <br /><br />Genres and their requirements/suggestions/exceptions. <br /><br />I'll run through the archives and send you a list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-82479580022779046942010-05-05T12:20:31.921-04:002010-05-05T12:20:31.921-04:00Amanda,
I agree with you on these books. All of ...Amanda,<br /><br />I agree with you on these books. All of us, I think, have one "gift" in the writing realm. At least most beginning writers do. I can't imagine getting it in your head you're going to be a writer without early encouragement, and early encouragement USUALLY comes from someone seeing and recognizing the gift. However, most people have gifts for ONE thing. I've yet to meet a fully-sprung writer, as it were, one who can do everything well NATURALLY. Most people are good with one of the following: characters, plot, wording, setting, pacing.<br />Myself I had characters. Wording, but only in Portuguese, until I transitioned. Everything else was learned. And at first you do it by the numbers, of course, until you learn to fly. The good news is that you CAN learn. (Or at least I can, and if I can, everyone can.)Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-86214347787896182632010-05-05T12:16:11.525-04:002010-05-05T12:16:11.525-04:00Jonathan,
Thank you. :)Jonathan,<br /><br />Thank you. :)Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-38582205313992163632010-05-05T12:15:00.041-04:002010-05-05T12:15:00.041-04:00Chris K
I think we'd structure it as a "p...Chris K<br />I think we'd structure it as a "panel". I know we've all tackled the same themes over and over. Say, plot. Rounded Characters. Etc. The fact that we all -- beyond some fundamentals -- have very different approaches would possibly save readers from taking the whole advice with no thought. And I think we have enough different -- for lack of a better term -- temperaments that no matter who you are, you'd find an approach that works for you.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-14748814132738216092010-05-05T12:13:28.742-04:002010-05-05T12:13:28.742-04:00Ellyll
Well, we probably would have to polish the...Ellyll<br /><br />Well, we probably would have to polish the bits some. For one, I'm not sure if we can do the ebook for free or will have to charge -- I honestly don't know what form it will take yet -- and would hate for you guys to pay for things you can read for free.<br />And yes, Ellyl, a list of posts you'd be interested in seeing included and other topics you want treated would be very interesting to me.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-17467371552703662262010-05-05T12:09:27.213-04:002010-05-05T12:09:27.213-04:00Rowena,
Isn't it? I think that's one of ...Rowena,<br /><br />Isn't it? I think that's one of the best things about a writers' group, too -- more than the critiques -- you see what other people are learning, and sometimes you can reverse engineer it.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-24411246883228836362010-05-05T10:26:12.361-04:002010-05-05T10:26:12.361-04:00I've bought and borrowed my fair share of self...I've bought and borrowed my fair share of self-help books. There are few I have read from cover to cover. Some I've quickly discovered won't work for me, as a writer, because my process of writing isn't anywhere near what the author says it should be. I simply can't do a 10 or 12 page character development, going back generations to describe the character's family, genealogy, etc. To me, that's like doing a 50k word outline for a 120k word book. By the time I've done it, I don't want to work on the book any more. <br /><br />Still, there are nuggets of ideas, prompts, rules that these books have that I've found useful. One of the best comes from a book Sarah recommended to me: The Artist's Way (iirc -- I'm too lazy to walk to the bookcase to read the title). One of the exercises it recommends is to spend a few minutes each morning hand writing 2 pages. Just 2. It can't be on your current wip. It can be your to do list, grocery list or even just free association writing. But it is writing and it has gotten me past those periods where writer's block is so very bad.<br /><br />The argument that these self-help books take away your unique voice is the one that has me shaking my head. The only way that happens if if you let it. That is where you have to decide if the information the book gives is valid <i>for the way you write</i>. If it isn't, then don't use it.<br /><br />Most of all, these books should be considered aids and not the hard and fast rule on what you have to do. As Dave, Rowena, Sarah, Chris and Kate have said before, you have to know the rules to know when to break them.Amanda Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927312739323222344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-27212540890945239852010-05-05T10:17:16.839-04:002010-05-05T10:17:16.839-04:00Ellyll, please do let us know which of the posts y...Ellyll, please do let us know which of the posts you've found most helpful. Thanks.Amanda Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927312739323222344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-47631874225852473662010-05-05T09:45:24.697-04:002010-05-05T09:45:24.697-04:00I love the idea of a Mad Genius book. In the (six...I love the idea of a Mad Genius book. In the (six months? More, I think; maybe nine since I met John at a book signing and he pointed me this way) you guys have been a constant source of entertainment and inspiration, illuminating that which was impenetrable and showing that, yes, even established writers still face the unassailable mountains of writing and tackle them one bloody-knuckled grab at a time.<br /><br />As to which specific posts... umm, that might take a while. So many are filled with the golden nuggety hints of acquired knowledge I'm not sure where you would begin. I look forward to it though - I will have a hunt back through your cavernous archives and see what springs to attention :)Jonathan D. Beerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525346572076892536noreply@blogger.com