tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post4147503827415183271..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: Filling the technology-shaped holesSarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-91506360411817772052010-12-19T17:25:48.681-05:002010-12-19T17:25:48.681-05:00What a fascinating post, Kate. I think however tha...What a fascinating post, Kate. I think however that it's a bit more complicated than a simple lag in mores changing to reflect a new reality. My own theory goes that it's a first in last out situation, that many of the basic traits which have an instinctive component are quite hard to change, rationally.<br /><br />And of course there are often vested interests in not changing them.<br /><br />There is also the comfort of familiarity factor (we've always had roast turkey for Christmas - so what if it is 110 degrees C out there) which helps in the retentiion of traditions and taboos (which are sometimes the same thing).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12315551718688781746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-88264011302505887552010-12-18T17:00:17.225-05:002010-12-18T17:00:17.225-05:00On privacy, my theory is that in cultures where ev...On privacy, my theory is that in cultures where everyone is stuffed in all together a sort of "virtual" privacy develops. You pretend not to know what you know and pretend not to notice what you notice.<br /><br />My basis for this theory is the particular way that Scandinavians (and my ancestors) tend not to emote.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-62410351611902167572010-12-18T01:20:27.260-05:002010-12-18T01:20:27.260-05:00MataPam,
I have to disagree with your assertion ...MataPam, <br /><br />I have to disagree with your assertion about the current anti-privacy trend. While I'll agree that it's strong, it's not even a regression to the mean. The anonymity provided by a mobile urban life is a fairly new thing. The norm has nearly always been to live and work in the same place, surrounded the same people. Who knew nearly everything about you.<br />Heck, I grew up in a fairly good-sized town in a fairly mobile society. As a teenager, word of my exploits still frequently reached home before I did. (Which I found most inconvenient. But now that I've got kids of my own, I very much wish that our society would get back to that point.)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12822511906907583597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-69604746602826037602010-12-18T01:05:58.482-05:002010-12-18T01:05:58.482-05:00On the incest thing, I'd argue that the possib...On the incest thing, I'd argue that the possible genetic consequences are much less of a factor than the certain dysfunctional family dynamics resulting from the behavior. In an admittedly extreme example, the children and grandchildren of Sawney Bean were healthy enough physically.<br /><br />But the main reason I'm writing, is because of your statement about technology regressing a generation or more. I want to come down heavily on the "or more" side of the equation. The knowledge base (and the infrastructure that supported it) has become obsolete, and has been abandoned. A small tactical withdrawal simply isn't viable. <br />A bit longer ago than I'd really care to think about, I thought it would be fun to build a steam engine. It's an invention that dominated lives for a few hundred years, and had been continually been refined and made more efficient during that time. Yet I found that it's darned difficult to find any but the crudest plans for the things. <br />Or as another example, some of the geekier of us might actually know how to use a slide rule. But they're pretty hard to find, and we'd have a heck of a time trying to make one.<br />When I was young, the township model was dying. It's now been dead for a long time. Living within three miles of a town just isn't very important when you've got fast, reliable cars. I can go out into the countryside and see a few crumbling foundations, but that's about it. It's not something that could be functionally rebuilt by a stressed populace which suddenly found its mobility constrained.<br /><br />(And I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12822511906907583597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-89405797675592452202010-12-17T19:11:57.636-05:002010-12-17T19:11:57.636-05:00Washing hands is getting to be an insult, supposed...Washing hands is getting to be an insult, supposedly. Not naming names but a President was criticized for using hand sanitizer after shaking a Junior Senator's hand, and a former candidate for VP was criticized for constantly washing her hands while visiting a cholera outbreak area.<br /><br />The hand washing and sanitizer thing is technologically affected both by the availability of sanitizer and the ease of travel that amounts to untold vectors for germs over far greater distances ever before.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-19701174196917334702010-12-17T06:56:38.939-05:002010-12-17T06:56:38.939-05:00Chris, we can only hope.
Speaking of cultural tab...Chris, we can only hope.<br /><br />Speaking of cultural taboos, that would be a great pair to gain. Unfortunately, we appear to be in a strong anti-privacy trend right now.MataPamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128604732495114033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-47172791372927680712010-12-16T22:09:31.196-05:002010-12-16T22:09:31.196-05:00I think texting while talking to someone else will...I think texting while talking to someone else will soon be punishable by death - likewise talking loudly on mobile phones on public transport:)Chris McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883058490702361466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-25050827231638438232010-12-16T21:38:56.275-05:002010-12-16T21:38:56.275-05:00Synova,
As I understand it, the non-cultural ince...Synova,<br /><br />As I understand it, the non-cultural incest-ick <i>is</i> a 'raised together' thing - and has been observed in animals. Cats will mate with other cats rather than their littermates (Of course, that particular reluctance only goes so far - if there aren't any other cats around, the littermate will do). <br /><br />I think that being raised together creates a sense of "is family" as opposed to "is potential mate", and that's where the instinctive ick reaction happens. <br /><br />What would happen if lifespans got long enough to weaken that reaction is another interesting question.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-88139427573936225092010-12-16T21:32:49.368-05:002010-12-16T21:32:49.368-05:00Brendan,
Absolutely. And it would probably not sh...Brendan,<br /><br />Absolutely. And it would probably not show up until about long enough for all the taboos about it to have faded away - leading to some interesting consequences.<br /><br />There have been any number of interesting stories exploring some of these - but sadly, not too many recently. How people handle the way the tech changes their life is probably the most interesting aspect of technology. <br /><br />Suppose we got reliable teleportation? What happens to the places that aren't close to a teleporter?Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-72315662740178072052010-12-16T21:24:44.567-05:002010-12-16T21:24:44.567-05:00Matapam,
Absolutely - and there's even a few ...Matapam,<br /><br />Absolutely - and there's even a few mythological examples to use. <br /><br />As far as incest goes, a lot of cultures don't regard cousin marriage as problematic - and it's not that long ago that our own didn't. So that one is a sliding boundary.<br /><br />Wasn't it Heinlein who said that the world isn't just stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we <i>can</i> imagine?Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-26471567221777374842010-12-16T21:15:49.254-05:002010-12-16T21:15:49.254-05:00EvMick,
Exactly! Taking a change and following al...EvMick,<br /><br />Exactly! Taking a change and following along a reasonably sensible path to where it could end is a whole lot of fun, and the changes that happen to attitudes are probably even more interesting.<br /><br />It helps if you don't ick out too quickly though.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-79398720677171251652010-12-16T18:18:28.119-05:002010-12-16T18:18:28.119-05:00The incest thing is probably not wholly connected ...The incest thing is probably not wholly connected to a conscious understanding of inheritance or cultural memory of sickly children. This is a case of "I read this somewhere" but genetically related people actually seem to have a greater sexual attraction *provided they were not raised together.* And those unrelated but raised together acquire an inhibition as if they were actually siblings. <br /><br />If that's true, then technology might mean that cultural taboos over incest disappear to be replaced by a taboo concerning one's creche-mates.<br /><br />Oh, and King Tut had one grandmother. ;-)Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-8591573990454983332010-12-16T17:25:44.812-05:002010-12-16T17:25:44.812-05:00The problem with a non-recessive society and inces...The problem with a non-recessive society and incest is that while the society may start without recessives but new ones would crop up through cell mutation and (assuming we aren't talking a clone group) natural genetic changes due to breeding.<br /><br />I think the questions of how society will change have always been one of the things SF has done(I could name multiple stories that address the issues Kate raised). Of course there is Hard SF where it is all about the tech, but I think the stories that deal with how the group deals with the tech to be far more interesting.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290731721638936110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-45023102428808133222010-12-16T14:22:32.611-05:002010-12-16T14:22:32.611-05:00In a society without genetic errors - trauma damag...In a society without genetic errors - trauma damage would be repulsive, anyone with a chronic condition from a toxic exposure considered a weakling, not good enough to be a real person.<br /><br />Incest is common, despite the statistical relationship to birth defects. From Egyptian Pharoses marrying their sisters to the current Muslim culture of frequent cousin marriage to conserve family wealth. But it is also how animal breeders strengthen desireable characteristics.<br /><br />Will a taboo against marrying against "specialty" arise. "I can't believe it! Eighteen generations of Engineers and she married a Musician! Pity the poor children!"<br /><br />Our experiences with the first AIs will determine whether they are banned or protected. One of the novels I have out in circulation has "Artifical Personalities" (as distinct from merely large capacity computers)destroyed upon discovery, and a benign AP trying to stay undiscovered.<br /><br />I can see all kinds of weirdness in the future. And some of it is happening. One way travel to Mars, to colonize it - but they want to send old men, not a breeding population. How insane is that?MataPamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128604732495114033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-62369977084973143712010-12-16T09:46:42.979-05:002010-12-16T09:46:42.979-05:00Now you're talking.
THIS is what science fict...Now you're talking.<br /><br />THIS is what science fiction is supposed to be. "If THIS....then WHAT?"<br /><br />If pistols become cheap what good is the expensive sword and all the training required to master the sword.<br /><br />If every person can selectively access intellectual "enhancements"..(plug in Algebra.....History....Volvo AirConditoner Repair) .what good would be the school system?<br /><br />Suppose a person could disassociate his "society of mind"...into multiple individuals and be sane....and productive.<br /><br />"Schizophrenia means never being lonely..."<br /><br />Suppose..........<br /><br />THAT's the kind of reading I like.<br /><br />All the gratuitous violence, sex and mayhem is just icing.evmickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06345726039742529074noreply@blogger.com