tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post5959374185642839294..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: Alas, Poor CharacterSarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-57316587296759975182010-12-02T14:41:06.939-05:002010-12-02T14:41:06.939-05:00Well, I did figure that it was the "problem t...Well, I did figure that it was the "problem that must be got over" and not a permanent or laudatory attitude. In the end the moral of the story would be very much in the current fashion. <br /><br />It just struck me as sort of on-topic to be trying to present a character in an interesting way, with her flaws, such that readers are sympathetic rather than disgusted. What I did actually do is include the negative reaction in the text from herself and also the male lead who says something pretty cruel, so hopefully that leaves the reader to be sympathetic. <br /><br />I think that it will take being done with the whole thing to see if I pulled it off or not. I'm just so prone to making characters without "issues" that I don't want to smooth her out, even if "hard sell" is the same as "no chance."Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-69819853251059396182010-12-02T10:10:02.964-05:002010-12-02T10:10:02.964-05:00Synova,
Just FYI you're going to find that bo...Synova,<br /><br />Just FYI you're going to find that book a hard sell because it seems to be out of step with current views. Are there women who are like that? Absolutely. For all I know they might even be realistic and practical, but people like me have been taught to despise them since we first heard of them.<br />I'm not saying this makes them unworthy to write about. However, you should AT LEAST make her sympathetic by making her feel guilty over wanting this. Also, give her a reason for this extreme "need" -- like both her parents were killed when she was very young and she was passed along from foster home to foster home. She wants to BELONG. But if she feels guilty and doesn't want to be a wet blanket OR throw herself at anything in pants, then the fact she still is needy will create great internal tension. Which can make her do stupid (but understandable) things. Which can cause the story to develop a dynamic of its own. I've been reading a lot of cheap regency romances, and what I've found is that the "cheap, quick" ones, as opposed to the top of the charts ones, the characters do things just because the plot calls for them to. That sort of "unenforced gaffe" IS irritating and makes you want to throttle the characer. It does not make for a good story.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-21906584886534156622010-12-02T10:04:20.316-05:002010-12-02T10:04:20.316-05:00Synova,
Well, it's better than JUST assuming ...Synova,<br /><br />Well, it's better than JUST assuming it's good to have bad things happen, and piling them on.<br /><br />Yeah, I hate the victim character too. My ideal character is the fallen caryatid. Pardon me while I quote Heinlein: <br />This poor little caryatid has fallen under the load. She's a good girl---look at her face. Serious, unhappy at her failure, not blaming anyone, not even the gods...and still trying to shoulder her load, after she's crumpled under it. <br /><br />But she's more than just good art denouncing bad art; she's a symbol for every woman who ever shouldered a load too heavy. But not alone women---this symbol means every man and woman who ever sweated out life in uncomplaining fortitude until they crumpled under their loads. It's courage...and victory. <br /><br />Victory in defeat, there is none higher. She didn't give up...she's still trying to lift that stone after it has crushed her...she's all the unsung heroes who couldn't make it but never quit. <br /><br />Robert A. Heinlein,<br />Stranger in a Strange LandSarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-55518995396269825032010-12-01T22:26:20.847-05:002010-12-01T22:26:20.847-05:00Synova,
I hate doing Bad Things to my Characters....Synova,<br /><br />I hate doing Bad Things to my Characters. I especially hate making them do stupid/careless/thoughtless things that make them the cause of the problem. <br /><br />::sigh:: Sarah says I need to do this much more often.<br /><br />I find that it helps to give them a few Characteristics that I dislike in people. "Oh, look! Little Miss Perfect just accidentally killed her Stupid Jock Boyfriend." It makes it easier.<br /><br />The whole "I must find Mr. Right." attitude I have found to be just as incomprehensible as I found boy crazy teenage girls when I was a teenage girl.<br /><br />You might consider baklancing her with a more practical gal pal, who can always point out flaws and more sensible things to do. Then your MC can get in a huff or lose her temper and do the next insane thing, more as a reaction than an honest-to-goodness-stupid-act. Most readers will identify with one or the other of the women.<br /><br />You can always flip this for an amusing ending. Your MC finds Mr Right, and he's everything she always dreamed of. The practical Pal can elope with the Bad Boy.MataPamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128604732495114033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-45485303703575140382010-12-01T21:34:10.999-05:002010-12-01T21:34:10.999-05:00I usually have trouble trying to make anything bad...I usually have trouble trying to make anything bad happen to my characters. It's not just that I've got a pet peeve about the classic "victim" character - all of her family is dead, and who knows what else happened to her as a child - but I have a terrible time introducing conflict because I keep thinking that it's all so avoidable, usually. So I've actually been trying to get more of that in there instead of less.<br /><br />So, day before yesterday I'm writing the first scene of what is planned to be a category romance and I'm trying to portray this girl/woman who's put her life on hold until she knows who she should be planning her life around and is, consequently, sizing up every male-and-breathing person as a potential husband and... it's embarrassing and painful. I've tried to make her likable and hope that a reader would sympathize rather than be disgusted that she's so hopeless and weak. The truth is, though, that I can't tell. The good news about that is that this time I'm not letting that stop me.<br /><br />In any case, as I was reading Sarah's post I was thinking how well it applied.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-74281254028279827092010-12-01T21:15:17.724-05:002010-12-01T21:15:17.724-05:00Sarah,
Battle crumpets AND assault tea.Sarah,<br /><br />Battle crumpets AND assault tea.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-83226061325372700302010-12-01T20:52:55.582-05:002010-12-01T20:52:55.582-05:00Jim,
well, even in the character's head, it h...Jim,<br /><br />well, even in the character's head, it has to be an interesting head...<br /><br />As for E... just wait till you see what he's like at three and half. He's become a master strategian...Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-87874795309847151802010-12-01T20:16:01.947-05:002010-12-01T20:16:01.947-05:00I always try to get the reader inside my character...I always try to get the reader inside my character's head. If you know who they are and what they want they become real. To me if you can manage real and likeable and add to that a problem you get interesting.<br /><br />You're right about needing some flaws for a character though. The perfect character is not only unbelievable they're boring. That's why I love Dyce.<br /><br />Although, for my money, the most entertaining character in those books is E...<br /><br />But that's just my opinion.Jim McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12524898692671838600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-42855490211619091242010-12-01T19:18:10.517-05:002010-12-01T19:18:10.517-05:00Kate,
I will never SURVIVE have introduced you to...Kate,<br /><br />I will never SURVIVE have introduced you to Austen.com, will I? If only they knew, there would be battle crumpets headed towards me.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-90677065222979447262010-12-01T19:16:53.378-05:002010-12-01T19:16:53.378-05:00Chris L,
Well, yes, humor is a way to link people...Chris L,<br /><br />Well, yes, humor is a way to link people to your characters. Mind you, sometimes GALLOWS humor.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-42719582834449049402010-12-01T19:15:54.254-05:002010-12-01T19:15:54.254-05:00Rowena,
I get a lot of Inigo Montoya characters.....Rowena,<br /><br />I get a lot of Inigo Montoya characters...Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-88671725110810767632010-12-01T19:15:22.686-05:002010-12-01T19:15:22.686-05:00Chris,
LOL. Only the fun part -- the truly fun p...Chris,<br /><br />LOL. Only the fun part -- the truly fun part is when I get what is OBVIOUSLY someone else's character. That really means you've gone around the twist. I think Kate and I share a brain for instance. I'll go "Um... Kate, are you pondering a book where magic is powered by...?" Kate "Yeah, well... I sort of had the idea last night but I have all these characters, except the main one." "Right. The main one is in my brain. It's like this..."<br />No, I don't even WANT to know any explanation.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-7921899005724219562010-12-01T19:12:27.821-05:002010-12-01T19:12:27.821-05:00Linda,
That's how Eric Flint writes too. I d...Linda,<br /><br />That's how Eric Flint writes too. I didn't even KNOW people COULD write like that. I usually get the character in my head, and go from there. When we first met he asked me who my characters "were" I said "Themselves." Then we looked at each other as if the other was an alien. :-PSarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-37010670797604149492010-12-01T18:58:17.114-05:002010-12-01T18:58:17.114-05:00Sarah! It's *me*. Normal lasts for a wee bit...Sarah! It's *me*. Normal lasts for a wee bit... then the blood starts flowing or the traitor causes an issue or someone dies or, or, or... Having things be normal just makes the mountain falling on the character so much more important. If a character actually starts out happy, they have a reason to strive to return to the happiness. :DC Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-70238126934376990472010-12-01T18:35:34.484-05:002010-12-01T18:35:34.484-05:00Chris,
That's a great beginning for a story, ...Chris,<br /><br />That's a great beginning for a story, BUT even though "normal" is part of the arc of the story, your "normal" shouldn't take more than a paragraph or two, or -- I'm sorry -- things get boring.<br /><br />Of course you can have "normal with a sense something is wrong" like Monster Hunter International, for instance. (OR Darkship Thieves for that matter. Or Draw One In The Dark. or...) The point is it's not supposed to be a whole going on about how normal and happy things are. Sorry. We humans want excitement. Eh. And it's been that way for a long time. Consult Shakespeare, Homer and Austen.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-84475005437108223092010-12-01T18:15:24.020-05:002010-12-01T18:15:24.020-05:00Yes Kate. There have been times where I've be...Yes Kate. There have been times where I've been reading a book that I have enjoyed. Suddenly, things are going well, but I'm only half way through the book. I've caught myself literally cringing as I turn the page waiting to see what mountain/planet/universe/bladder infection is dropped on the character next.C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-78339984647290085002010-12-01T18:09:36.681-05:002010-12-01T18:09:36.681-05:00Let's see... Sarah and I have had a few discus...Let's see... Sarah and I have had a few discussions on the whole notion that plotting by dropping mountains on the poor SOB who happens to be our current character is really not the best way to do it. After a while, every time things slow down enough for the readers to catch their breath, they're looking for the next mountain. It actually gets boring. "Okay, he's found a nice girl and they're going to get married. What's going to kill her before the day? Betcha he never gets laid."<br /><br />Me, I get characters and universes. Never plots. My plots are what my characters do to get out of the messes they end up in. Although I disclaim all responsibility for the Austen fanfic that's decided it wants to add ghosts and vampires and werewolves oh my!Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-5004561821096176162010-12-01T17:04:06.695-05:002010-12-01T17:04:06.695-05:00My characters are constructed to play a role in th...My characters are constructed to play a role in the begining, a little like Linda's, but they always grow into themselves, and I have to go back and realign my early attempts later.<br /><br />Making people care, to me, is as simple as givng the reader something to identify with. One character type that always seems to pop up for me is the opinionated fool (I identify with him quite well) who has no idea how much he gets on other people's goat.<br /><br />He/she often injects a bit of humour and is usually redeemed. But humour is another way to crack the character shell. I think a reader will forgive quite a few flaws if you're offering something that will put a smile on their face.Chris Largehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14515115955119082498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-65627350880710341352010-12-01T16:17:47.329-05:002010-12-01T16:17:47.329-05:00LOL, Sarah.
I love a character who keep trying no...LOL, Sarah.<br /><br />I love a character who keep trying no matter what!Rowena Cory Daniellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995983965583233914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-2315533934256221332010-12-01T14:30:16.412-05:002010-12-01T14:30:16.412-05:00I'm just the opposite in my story creation, Li...I'm just the opposite in my story creation, Linda. Usually my characters create themselves and start talking to me. I admit, this makes me seem a little pschyzoid at times. Only after they are fleshed out and chatty do I ask them what their story it. <br /><br />Me: "Who are you and what are you doing in my head."<br /><br />Character: "I'm Angel. I'm just hanging out here."<br /><br />Me: "Oh, uh, okay. So what's shaking?"<br /><br />Angel: "Not much. I went shopping this morning. I got this new book by this author I really love. It's about a girl who turns into a panther and her boyfriend who turns into a dragon."<br /><br />Me: "Uh, I think I read that."<br /><br />Angel: "Really?! That's great! Don't tell me how it ends though!"<br /><br />Me: "Okay, I won't. So what do you do?"<br /><br />Angel: "I'm a werelioness with a degree in statistics from MIT."<br /><br />Me: "Okay, I'm obviously insane. I'm going to bed now, good night."<br /><br />Angel: "Wait! I haven't pestered you to death with forty or fifty stories about me that I want you to write!"<br /><br />Me: "AAAHHHHHGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!"C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-81835798189509243172010-12-01T13:59:37.207-05:002010-12-01T13:59:37.207-05:00Characters are probably the hardest thing for me t...Characters are probably the hardest thing for me to create because my writing usually starts out as concept based. I have "slots" of characters to fill.<br /><br />I usually start with a person I know who has the attributes of who I want to drop into that slot and go from there. By then time I'm done, the person is usually a composite of a few different people I know.<br /><br />Then I have to drop myself into that character's mind without bringing much of "me" since the character's not me. It's kind of like being an actor, I've decided. Then I write it one role at a time.<br /><br />LindaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-52401550201682105912010-12-01T13:10:28.376-05:002010-12-01T13:10:28.376-05:00It's strange but one of the things that bugs m...It's strange but one of the things that bugs me a little is that few characters ever seem to start with things normal and happy. If things aren't normal and happy at some point then regardless of how hard the character gets whacked, it's really just more of the same with higher intensity. <br /><br />Normal does, BTW, give you a lot of interesting ways to whack your characters. Consider what might happen if the entire internet suddenly tried to friend you on facebook because all three major news networks just spilled the beans on you being an honest to goodness werewolf? And then your mom (who didn't know) calls.C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-91780375001859677012010-12-01T10:53:42.374-05:002010-12-01T10:53:42.374-05:00I'm having problems with the short story where...I'm having problems with the short story where the character is freezing to death!Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-81394066408037367732010-12-01T10:12:16.531-05:002010-12-01T10:12:16.531-05:00I think you have to start by spotlighting them (He...I think you have to start by spotlighting them (Hello, Reader, this one, right here, is the Main Character!) while doing something interesting (See, Reader, she does cool things, so keep reading.)<br /><br />Dumpster diving for furniture works. I have mine doing an ordinary chore as a way to practice magic. Hopefully it will do as well.MataPamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128604732495114033noreply@blogger.com