tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post6406291207581846059..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: Whose Head Is THIS anyway?Sarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-82073005450879633992009-02-18T01:57:00.000-05:002009-02-18T01:57:00.000-05:00John, not head hopping seems to be a recent thing,...John, not head hopping seems to be a recent thing, whether American or not, I don't know. I rather prefer it, but head hopping handled by a master -- Georgette Heyer! Yes, I do mean that -- can be barely noticeable and work very well. At any rate, it seems to be taboo in sf and mystery.<BR/><BR/>Bill, on the one pov first one third... I've done that. Unless you have a VERY good plot reason -- in my case it was that I wanted you to feel much closer to one of the characters -- I'd advise not doing it, as it's jarring. OTOH as with all else, it depends on how well it's done. I have yet to sell that novel, but there are other issues with it.<BR/><BR/>Sorry not to have answered this sooner. On the good side, the book IS delivered. :)Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-35491236722911865192009-02-12T21:42:00.000-05:002009-02-12T21:42:00.000-05:00John -- I think it depends on what you mean by hea...John -- I think it depends on what you mean by headhopping, and on how well it is done. What I try to refer to and point out are the sudden short shifts in POV without clearly indicating what's happening, so that the reader has to stop and figure out that while the paragraph started with Henry's POV, this little observation is from Jane's POV. Might call it indiscriminate shifts in POV?<BR/><BR/>Changing POV, on the other hand, is a perfectly legitimate tool -- as long as you give the reader half-a-chance of following you.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01422171964652699673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-85786001976457001492009-02-12T10:49:00.000-05:002009-02-12T10:49:00.000-05:00The idea that one can't headhop POV seems to be an...The idea that one can't headhop POV seems to be an American idea. I have heard that it has come out of creative writing courses in American colleges - no idea whether that is true.<BR/><BR/>It is quite normal for British writers to headhop.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that it is more difficult for the author to headhop but it hasn't impeded writers like Christie.<BR/><BR/>JohnJohn Lambsheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04598696442104566164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-14236162096738747712009-02-12T02:50:00.000-05:002009-02-12T02:50:00.000-05:00Thanks! And @Sara has a good point -- true omnisci...Thanks! And @Sara has a good point -- true omniscient (God's View) and headhopping are different. The scenic view can be used like an establishing shot in movies, but it does keep one away from the characters. Headhopping is just confusing :-)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01422171964652699673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-10010354216690140512009-02-11T17:32:00.000-05:002009-02-11T17:32:00.000-05:00This is a good discussion. Any POV choice can be ...This is a good discussion. Any POV choice can be made to work, of course, if done right. I do wish, though, that writers wouldn't indulge in "head-hopping". It makes me feel, as a reader, like I'm walking on quicksand.<BR/><BR/>For a writer who uses many, many points of view but handles them masterfully, see Kay Kenyon's THE ROSE AND THE ENTIRE series. The fourth book isn't out yet, but the others, starting with BRIGHT OF THE SKY, are superb, and demonstrate how a writer at the peak of her powers can manage a skills issue like point of view.Louise Marleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06668748880280941869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-78778547966853128602009-02-11T14:49:00.000-05:002009-02-11T14:49:00.000-05:00How do you feel about books that mix a first perso...How do you feel about books that mix a first person narrator with a multi-third supporting cast? I'm working on a book right now with a hero who a friend has suggested might work better in first, but I plan to have several supporting characters whose POV will be necessary. <BR/><BR/>BillBill Swearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556058541212067615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-27015229804073056572009-02-11T12:54:00.000-05:002009-02-11T12:54:00.000-05:00Speaking as a reader, I define 3rd omniscient as t...Speaking as a reader, I define 3rd omniscient as the style of writing used in things that generally come under the heading of epic, i.e. Illiad and Odyssey, Gigamesh, and a more recent example, Lord of the Rings. Our hero(es) TM are almost dolls moving through the landscape and plot without ever really interacting with the reader in any significant emotional way.<BR/><BR/>DawnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-27350897725117405442009-02-11T06:53:00.000-05:002009-02-11T06:53:00.000-05:00It's funny how many newbie authors pick first pers...It's funny how many newbie authors pick first person because they think it's easier, whereas you can actually fudge POV a whole lot more in third person! <BR/><BR/>There is headhopping in some Romance novels (Nora Roberts does it, for example, and it drove me up the wall in the one novel of hers I read) but in my experience most Romance novels are in third person just like most Fantasy novels.<BR/><BR/>I do think there's a huge difference between true omniscient POV and headhopping. Omniscient POV handled well tends to look indistinguishable from third person for long stretches at a time. The author doesn't swich POV every other line (i.e. headhopping), like in many a poorly written manuscript. <BR/><BR/>Actually I think what you call third person limited with "exceptions", could well be called omniscient by some, because you're zooming out to show an objective/narrator perspective on something. Starting a novel from an omniscient perspective is the classical way to signal that the novel will be in third person omniscient (and will thus avoid the reader scratching his head when a disembodied description or something pops up at some later point). <BR/><BR/>SaraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com