tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post7795891506838432266..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: To Shred or Not to Shred, That is the QuestionSarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-76147862041307216322010-07-10T21:30:12.564-04:002010-07-10T21:30:12.564-04:00Stephen,
It's not quite tidally locked, but i...Stephen,<br /><br />It's not <i>quite</i> tidally locked, but it's as close as makes no difference, in the practical sense. There are records tracking the progress of the eclipse and the sun's movement, and calculations based on the observations that predict when the full light of the sun will reach which locations - but the earliest for that is a few hundred years in the future (our years). <br /><br />Yes, there are cultures that have grown up on the dark side of the planet. They're nothing like this society.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-78899774129221228302010-07-10T21:25:14.788-04:002010-07-10T21:25:14.788-04:00Brendan,
Good food for thought there. With regard...Brendan,<br /><br />Good food for thought there. With regard to the city, there aren't many places in this world that aren't sitting on active volcanic zones. It's not something even the wealthy can escape. <br /><br />The question of what to introduce when is a sticky one: I need to signal "this isn't Kansas" early, so I don't have people thinking I'm writing in Victorian England. At the same time, yes, I don't want to be introducing too much too soon. <br /><br />Obviously I haven't got the balance right yet.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-5400028425309761682010-07-10T21:19:23.164-04:002010-07-10T21:19:23.164-04:00Matapam,
If you don't mind me filching that a...Matapam,<br /><br />If you don't mind me filching that as an opening hook, I just might use it!Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-68073647393528888622010-07-10T21:18:43.937-04:002010-07-10T21:18:43.937-04:00Synova,
Good suggestions, all. Thinking about it,...Synova,<br /><br />Good suggestions, all. Thinking about it, a whistle as a badge of office makes a lot of sense - and also explains why the kid doesn't give the warning :)Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-73188612440676429732010-07-10T21:16:27.420-04:002010-07-10T21:16:27.420-04:00Stephen,
I'm perfectly willing to accept &quo...Stephen,<br /><br />I'm perfectly willing to accept "trust me, this is how it works" - you don't need to add "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you". <br /><br />So long as I can make it sound plausible, pretty much anything goes, up to and including steam powered fridges running off of flywheels or something equally bizarre (they aren't terribly efficient).Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-79577078219800306342010-07-10T21:12:29.506-04:002010-07-10T21:12:29.506-04:00Chris M,
Yes, it is the very beginning, and yeah,...Chris M,<br /><br />Yes, it is the very beginning, and yeah, I do need to introduce the problems right up front. I'm puzzling over that at the moment.<br /><br />Alvar is definitely the lead here, but the kid is... not exactly what Alvar expects. He's going to be a tad startled when he finds out that his talented boy is actually a girl :)Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-44820640903971305902010-07-09T17:52:26.185-04:002010-07-09T17:52:26.185-04:00More thoughts ... is the "perpetual eclipse&q...More thoughts ... is the "perpetual eclipse" always fixed over the same point on the surface - in other words, is the planet tidally-locked to the primary? If so, are there places on the "back side" that aren't connected to whatever the culture uses for transportation, or haven't been in contact with the "front side" for more than a few generations?<br /><br />What I'm getting at is the evolution of their myths. If the planet is tidally-locked, the myths and religions on the side with the "empty" sky would evolve much differently than the myths that develop on the opposite face of the same world.Stephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-9898621357424719192010-07-09T04:55:30.968-04:002010-07-09T04:55:30.968-04:00You have created a very interesting world one that...You have created a very interesting world one that raises a lot of questions about it's nature.<br /><br />When introducing the world the language to me seems a bit confused. There is "perpetual midday" but the sun fills the southern half of the sky and is in eclipse giving a (once again 'perpetual') half light. While in theory these conditions may all be possible, to introduce what to most is going to seem contradictions this early will be distracting. <br /><br />The other part of the world you create I questioned is the lava underneath the city. Your hero sounds to be rich and important and I would have thought that people of the upper classes and important professions (and you make it clear he is both) are most likely to have their houses on the best real estate. Unless the whole town is built over the lava, the best real estate to my mind would include terra(or something) firma. Once again the reader is being asked to second your story's environment from the clues you provide and for something so seemingly radically different, to do this so early is quite a struggle.<br /><br />Could you move the spiel about the students to the paragraph lower down where you speak of respectable stall holders and whores and beggars? You allude to the various 'diversions' students partake in so putting the two together would make sense.<br /><br />The last bit I will comment on is the interaction between the Hero and the boy. You say earlier that people automatically get out of X's way but the boy is able to emerge from the crowd and knock him over. Also it seems the boy is looking for X so the way he would move through a crowd would be different tongue way a boy from a pickpocketing gang is going to. The gang boy is going to want to make the bump seem an accident of heedlessness but the boy in the story will be stopping, starting and looking around for the figure of authority. Concealment and deception is not his goal at this point.<br /><br />As I said you have created a very interesting world with many aspects that will give people a pause to think and wonder; just try not to introduce everything in one hit and so soon;)Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290731721638936110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-27288331200485208642010-07-08T23:02:40.055-04:002010-07-08T23:02:40.055-04:00Another person or two around might save a bit of &...Another person or two around might save a bit of "talking to himself" syndrome, but I didn't notice a bad level of that.<br /><br />The hook might be a comment to a butler, "No, I don't want breakfast. I feel hideously ill with an Engineer's headache from Hell. I'm going to stroll around and find the incompetent idiot who is abusing his mechanisms and behind on his maintenance. And then I'll eat him."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-59627683709121478272010-07-08T22:22:58.708-04:002010-07-08T22:22:58.708-04:00I think it's obvious that this is where the st...I think it's obvious that this is where the story needs to start. And I do think that there needs to be some establishment of the world in order for any of it to make sense, but I agree that there doesn't seem to be a hook.<br /><br />And I wonder if it's not partly because as Lord Alvar steps onto his front step, he doesn't want anything. There is no urgency at all. <br /><br />I suppose that's the sum total of my critique because what he *wants* at that moment could be anything. I just really think that, even if it's something that's only going to be an issue for the barest moment, it needs to be there. In our world it could be something as simple as being late for work, needing to escape the house, or jonesing for a Starbucks.<br /><br />The rest isn't critique but suggestions because I can't help myself, bad form or not, and all of it should probably be ignored. <br /><br />(Trying to keep the sort of lords and ladies feel to it), if he had a morning visitor he wanted to escape he'd have someone to talk to as he extricated himself and a reason to invent an urgent need to go somewhere if he didn't have an actual urgent need to go somewhere. Perhaps one of those cousins with honorary titles who could then fuss about something related to the scene... the dirty peasants or the grand address or the Academy or social functions... and Lord Alvar would have cause to muse about (or say outright) the fact that said cousin could no more detect a rusty radiator than the poor fellow hawking cabbages.<br /><br />It would be sort of neat if the boy conspicuously ran right past the "engineer" without talent and tackled the true engineer.<br /><br />In any case. Someone I once knew got a critique back on a romance that said *this* about the sister and then *that* about the sister and then said, "Oh, by the way, you need to add a sister." Obviously, if the problem was a missing sister or not, something was missing. But I still don't want to be that critiquer.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-42244808757962880302010-07-08T21:42:30.489-04:002010-07-08T21:42:30.489-04:00A thought... I still haven't read the passage ...A thought... I still haven't read the passage carefully so I might have missed something important.<br /><br />Why can't the "boy" whistle the warning? Most of those responding won't see who whistled anyhow.<br /><br />I also thought that whistling with your mouth is sometimes really hard (making it an unnecessary point of failure) so maybe there should be a metal whistle, a badge of station perhaps, that an untrained engineer would not have.<br /><br />Also, the declaration about the Academy seemed abrupt.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-49127546803983521712010-07-08T21:31:29.458-04:002010-07-08T21:31:29.458-04:00Kate - as long as you realize that my background c...Kate - as long as you realize that my background comes with some of those weird "... and I have to stop talking now, because I can't point to an unclassified source for what I know on that subject, even though the information itself isn't classified ..." holes in what I "know". Other than that, by all means. :)<br /><br />By all means, evolve a comm system that <i>feels</i> like it "evolved-in-place", not one that feels "all-one-piece-from-the-store". But you've got that incredible, pervasive natural heat/steam source, which would absolutely shape the evolution of their culture and the simplest day-to-day mechanics of their lives. (Stoves, for instance. Or, how the heck do they get/store water <i>cold enough to drink</i>, as opposed to our efforts to heat water for bathing?)Stephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-44223928937934539412010-07-08T21:21:00.719-04:002010-07-08T21:21:00.719-04:00Great world, Kate. Unique setting and a good sense...Great world, Kate. Unique setting and a good sense for the unfolding of a larger story.<br /><br />Assuming this is the very beginning, I would cut the first few para and get straight to the problem - this is the main action.<br /><br />I would be good to give a sense for what is at stake in the wider world up front - rather than purely descriptive material. Give a sense for what is different in this world and what the dangers are (no more than one short par), then introduce the problem.<br /><br />The introduction of the boy immediately makes me think he is going to be a lead protoganist as the 'discovered' talent. This gives me a problem, since if he is then he needs the PoV, not Alvar. It is almost as if you have two separate stories going on here. You could tone down his role and have his 'discovery' later from his PoV.<br /><br />I definitely like Alvar as a PoV character & could see him carrying the story.<br /><br />Cheers,Chris McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883058490702361466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-25287327317438936962010-07-08T21:19:00.615-04:002010-07-08T21:19:00.615-04:00Stephen,
Good points, all. And now that I know yo...Stephen,<br /><br />Good points, all. And now that I know you've got background on materials failure, you just might find yourself getting asked really <i>weird</i> questions.<br /><br />Possibly bells to signal "alarm: listen up" followed by something more complex for the detailed information would work. <br /><br />I do like the steam-powered organ idea. A good sized one positioned properly could blast sound a good distance, and with a code system that mixed a basic pitch signal (three or four tone, for general use - military signaling would be way more complex, and probably use rotating code keys) with different tone lengths to get something rather like pitched Morse Code.<br /><br />Not to mention military uses akin to the reason Ridcully reseals the B.S.J. "bathroom" after he had the misfortune to be in there when the Librarian was experimenting with the Unseen University's organ...Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-56071017038832272282010-07-08T21:05:46.379-04:002010-07-08T21:05:46.379-04:00To paraphrase the heroine of one of my favorite bo...To paraphrase the heroine of one of my favorite books ("Emergence", by David R. Palmer):<br /><br />How did anyone this stupid manage to live forty-six whole years?<br /><br />I'm an idiot. Forget the bells. You have steam. An inexhaustible supply thereof. Make it a massive pipe-organ.Stephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-63782775764750421542010-07-08T20:37:12.138-04:002010-07-08T20:37:12.138-04:00Oh, and by the way ... being a nuke, and having sp...Oh, and by the way ... being a nuke, and having spent far more hours than I care to remember both studying and teaching material failure mechanics ... you're singing my song ... lolStephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-76668520967627085212010-07-08T20:34:21.073-04:002010-07-08T20:34:21.073-04:00Bells could actually work for the alarm system, I ...Bells could actually work for the alarm system, I think. But give us a taste (just a taste, at this point, I think) of the mechanics, right away, to "sell" it to us. After all, Civil War-era generals gave fairly complex orders with nothing more than a bugle, right? And McCaffrey sold us on a remarkably convoluted continent-wide system of communications using only drums ...<br /><br />Say, an "alert" trill, (like the "dah-DAH-dah-DAH" "Attention" bugle call), followed by a unique melodic flourish that says "lava-breakthrough", as opposed to the various other major types of disaster. Break. A sequence that identifies the quadrant/ sector/ <i>whatever</i> of the city (however you have the map taking shape in your head). Break. etc ...<br /><br />I really do like the "followed the nausea" image. VERY evocative.Stephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-71373111112616629282010-07-08T20:03:58.267-04:002010-07-08T20:03:58.267-04:00Stephen,
On all the points you've hit, yes, y...Stephen,<br /><br />On all the points you've hit, yes, yes, yes and yes. And yes, if I missed any of them.<br /><br />Word repetition is one of my bug-bears. I play with words, I alliterate, and worse, assonance (which, in case people are wondering, has nothing to do with gay donkeys). If I don't watch myself, I get way to self-consciously twee - especially when I'm still fumbling for voice, which is the case here.<br /><br />Re: lava/magma - OY! Picture me kicking myself. I've got a flipping geology degree: you'd think I'd remember something as basic as that. Ye dogs.<br /><br />Yeah, I definitely need to mention the low-lives keeping their depredations down so they don't lose access to such a lucrative spot. And figure a few alternatives for the constables that aren't either too modern or too overtly Victorian. <br /><br />You're right about the use of nausea - I do need to slide that in somewhere earlier. <br /><br />Free hand... There you've got a classic case of what's inside the head not getting out mixed with author getting confused. Silly me. He doesn't grab the kid until later.<br /><br />The bell signaling system - I need a relatively easy to learn way to communicate across the city where the most important stuff is common knowledge (such as major districts, and various 'trouble' signals). I went for bell ringing because the things can be heard for a long distance and passed on quickly. What would you suggest for an alternative, given the tech levels and feel of the piece?Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-85176785696754576292010-07-08T19:49:21.488-04:002010-07-08T19:49:21.488-04:00Chris M,
Yeah, critique isn't easy. I'm c...Chris M,<br /><br />Yeah, critique isn't easy. I'm certainly not holding myself up as the be all and end all, but I figure the only way you learn to crit is by critting and being critted, so... <br /><br />Lead by example, and all that.<br /><br />(Of course the flip side of that is "if you're going to make a mistake, make it a doozy - something I have NO difficulty with!)Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-29977129521455372372010-07-08T19:47:43.763-04:002010-07-08T19:47:43.763-04:00Matapam,
That's an excellent suggestion right...Matapam,<br /><br />That's an excellent suggestion right there - shuffling things around so the hook's there up front but the scenery - particularly the things that are alien to us - is still enough for people to see the scene.<br /><br />The idea for the opening is to hook, and to drop just enough hints of "this ain't Kansas" to keep readers going. I'm not there yet - and advice like this helps clarify the things I need to do to get it there.<br /><br />As you say, not something to obsess on now, but something to take notes for when I start revising.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-76716075583991506962010-07-08T18:30:40.325-04:002010-07-08T18:30:40.325-04:00I find that I always have to do crits in two "...I find that I always have to do crits in two "layers". I do a cold read-through, making notes of my impressions as a reader as the story washes over me. Then I step back and look at the experience as a whole, trying to form a more complete taste of what just happened to me.<br /><br />Second layer first: I tend to agree with matapam's initial observation that the reader would be better served if the "Something's wrong" were much nearer the beginning. Not necessarily change anything other than sequencing of what you have: bring the fourth paragraph - the one that introduces his gift - to the top, and end it with the Problem, just as it does now.<br /><br />On to the more specific impressions: <br />The paragraph that describes the Academy: Unnecessary repetition in describing the eclipse. Powerful imagery, but the wording feels "not-finished-with-yet"-ish.<br /><br />The paragraph that introduces his gift: Maybe a different word, to avoid repeating "mechanisms" so close together? Interesting questions raised here for the reader about promised character development.<br /><br /><i>a nagging suggestion that evaded his conscious awareness.</i> The "something" clearly has intruded on his conscious awareness - he just hasn't identified it yet.<br /><br /><i>If Alvar recalled correctly, that was one of the devices used to test ...</i><br />Since he lives right across the Square, such a long-established vibration would be "an old friend", and wouldn't need any thought to identify.<br /><br /><i>... springs adjusted to shifting lava beneath them ...</i><br />While it's still underground, it's magma.<br /><br />The paragraph about the beggars and whores in Dowager's Square: Perhaps some mention of the beggars limiting thievery in such prestigious environs to avoid official backlash against their presence? Also, "constable ... constabulary" repeat close enough together to jangle.<br /><br /><i>Alvar followed the nausea, probing where it strengthened.</i><br />No earlier mention of a physical reaction to the sensation. The image is very powerful, but it hits us without any supporting back-trail.<br /><br /><i>He raised his free hand above his head, ...</i><br />"Free hand"? It isn't clear what the other is doing.<br /><br /><i>... the Academy's bells were signaling a breach in Dowager's Square ...</i><br />Signaling the specific location seems awfully complex for a bell-message.Stephen Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522113936557314128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-66915001724742454482010-07-08T18:26:36.469-04:002010-07-08T18:26:36.469-04:00Hi, Kate. Dealing with critique is always tricky, ...Hi, Kate. Dealing with critique is always tricky, although I would have to say I have got a lot better at giving it. That kind of helps, as you can recognise when someone giving you a hard time is inexperienced.<br /><br />Kudos for putting yourself out there!Chris McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883058490702361466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-85806644010818004912010-07-08T17:48:27.243-04:002010-07-08T17:48:27.243-04:00Your was brief enough, and different enough to lea...Your was brief enough, and different enough to leave mot of it as a chunk, IMO. <br /><br />It just can't come first.<br /><br />Question also about the Grand Eclipse. IIRC it lasts for years? Centuries? You may need to mention the bright lights of the square, lit at dawn and extinguished at dusk, esoteric words with ancient definitions that made no sense to anyone. <br /><br />You may need to pick and choose what is essential, for this scene, and how much can be added in dribs and drabs later.<br /><br />Personally, it's not something I'd worry about, right now. I tend to front load my starts with data, as I think it up. When I edit, I pick a good hook and move or remove the world building I was doing at the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-13879762727489582452010-07-08T16:38:41.519-04:002010-07-08T16:38:41.519-04:00Matapam,
You got that one on the nail. It's a...Matapam,<br /><br />You got that one on the nail. It's all nice and leisurely and pretty and scenery. <br /><br />Now to work out how to fit the "something wrong" and the gift into the scenery so it's not just a writer's travelogue.<br /><br />Hm... Possibly describing the places as he uses his gift to search them for problems?Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-1362868494367757312010-07-08T09:17:55.735-04:002010-07-08T09:17:55.735-04:00Your first three paragraphs are basic sightseeing....Your first three paragraphs are basic sightseeing. Necessary, since the first action is going to happen there, but they aren't any sort of hook. <br /><br />You need to start, I think, with your main character sensing something badly wrong, then a quick hint of the talent. That would hook the reader. Then Lord Alvar steps outside and you describe the square.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com