tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post8507722451313371576..comments2024-03-10T04:29:20.044-04:00Comments on Mad Genius Club: Shell Games and the Talking SnakeSarah A. Hoythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-87129948138923868502009-09-04T14:47:27.745-04:002009-09-04T14:47:27.745-04:00I don't have a problem with the main character...I don't have a problem with the main character thinking the wrong things. It's when the writer hides things from the reader, that the MC knows that is really irritating.<br /><br />Yes, Blogspot does seem to use word-like scrambles, that occasionally are real words. I tend to make up definitions. Today I've got rewel, what happens after you have a relapse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-79180751820215663002009-09-04T07:44:05.565-04:002009-09-04T07:44:05.565-04:00I think part of the unreliable narrator might be p...I think part of the unreliable narrator might be part of writing in the first person or very near third person with few other perspectives shown out of dialog. <br /><br />Jim Butcher's Dresden Files comes to mind- they are written in first person. Harry Dresden tries to be honest, there have been many cases where he does not have complete information, so later revelations are vastly different from his previously conceived perception of reality, but are handled in a way as not to seem world breaking.<br /><br />I have a feeling that Athena (from what I've read of the snippets and sample chapters) is another first person narrator who is acting from very incomplete information and as has been said before, in denial, as well. In summation, I guess, reliable within her limits but no further.<br /><br />"Lady" Dawn<br /><br />P.S. does blogspot often give log in words that resemble actual words rather than the usual gibberish? I've got a word today and have had one before, odd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-85425324521675961242009-09-03T08:29:41.771-04:002009-09-03T08:29:41.771-04:00I wonder if this qualifies as evil,or if it's ...I wonder if this qualifies as evil,or if it's proof of my torturous upbringing? Anyhow, on the topic of dinosaurs from space...<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g__H6nxq_W4C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-23670062096769966212009-09-02T21:49:56.284-04:002009-09-02T21:49:56.284-04:00Hey Sarah? I resemb...errr resent that remark!
...Hey Sarah? I resemb...errr resent that remark! <br /><br /><br />Okay fine so its true. ;PDa Curly Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07631427436506831892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-83840594393372411742009-09-02T21:17:44.419-04:002009-09-02T21:17:44.419-04:00Sarah,
I was actually thinking of the character w...Sarah,<br /><br />I was <i>actually</i> thinking of the character who's supposed to be wonderful and everyone throws themselves at his feet but he acts like a total prat. Or the one who's supposed to be <i>so</i> smart but does dumber than rock stuff, thereby proving that the author is in fact dumber than rocks.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-59673476945133001032009-09-02T21:13:59.939-04:002009-09-02T21:13:59.939-04:00Rowena,
weirdly -- because she's not one of m...Rowena,<br /><br />weirdly -- because she's not one of my favorites, sorry -- Ursula LeGuinn does that very well in The Left Hand of Darkness. What she's pulling off is that the alien character appears totally unsympathetic, but things develop slowly, till by the middle of the book you're totally on his side. This too is a form of unreliable narrator. I ruined more books trying to pull that sort of thing off than I care to mention.<br /><br />I sort of managed it with Tom in Draw One In The Dark, but only because it's fairly obvious Kyrie is attracted to him from the beginning, so the sane writer suspects there MUST be something else there. My early attempts, though... eeeeurk.<br /><br />And I don't think I could pull off detail work of the magnitude of sixth sense.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-484431489795352312009-09-02T21:11:01.172-04:002009-09-02T21:11:01.172-04:00Kate,
Oh, heavens. You mean like constantly tell...Kate,<br /><br />Oh, heavens. You mean like constantly telling you the character is evil, mean and nasty, or even dangerous while he behaves in a completely nice and even heroic way? Part of the reason most romances I pick up go out the window.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-60688432090646729552009-09-02T21:09:57.403-04:002009-09-02T21:09:57.403-04:00Matapam,
In the case of my character, I think &qu...Matapam,<br /><br />In the case of my character, I think "yes" is the answer to your question -- emotional abuse and so much money that people have been trying to gloam onto him all his life. Also, (deserved and undeserved) personal guilt orders of magnitude past crushing.<br /><br />And, hey, leave planet X alone! No, no, just joking. I ran into this five? years ago. We'd gone to the Smithsonian in DC and I'd found out about continents and tectonic movements beyond what I previously knew. So I came back to the hotel and goggled and found this WONDERFUL natural history site. Very grounded and scientific... Till they got to the spaceship with all the dinosaurs, which was going to come back any day and...<br /><br />There are things writers CAN'T do. They're too unbelievable. Madness of that order is one of them.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-14646422727717595112009-09-02T21:07:06.770-04:002009-09-02T21:07:06.770-04:00Chris, no, no, the worst part of having Athena in ...Chris, no, no, the worst part of having Athena in your head that long, is not just that she narrates constantly, no...<br /><br />It's that she has this sweet, soft "well behaved little girl" voice. I am honestly going to try to do it for a reading, because the contrast between how she sounded and what she was doing was roll on the floor funny.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-14946310322975657222009-09-02T21:05:52.710-04:002009-09-02T21:05:52.710-04:00Brendan,
That's one of my favorites, too. My...Brendan,<br /><br />That's one of my favorites, too. My older son has just discovered Christie and can usually be found with one of her books glued to his finger-ends these days. It's funny so far his favorites are mine. Must be genetic as Christie is the only thing my brother and I agree on, just about.<br /><br />On the clues -- I discovered Heyer as an adult, and she has several, truly unreliable narrators, and the funny thing is on first reading the books, I'd come to the end and go "She should have signaled that better." Almost everytime, on second reading, I've found she did, and I missed it the first time, such teh smooth run of narrative and the fact her character lies very convincingly.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-12429251543350326682009-09-02T20:54:25.912-04:002009-09-02T20:54:25.912-04:00True, Kate. If the author doesn't plant clues ...True, Kate. If the author doesn't plant clues to the nature of the narrator, then the revelations become annoying because the ground work wasn't laid.<br /><br />For instance, in the movie, the Sixth Sense, the clues that the narrator is a ghost are all there, but you find them on the second watching.Rowena Cory Daniellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995983965583233914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-35091901427521813362009-09-02T20:44:42.567-04:002009-09-02T20:44:42.567-04:00I think there's unreliable, and there unreliab...I think there's unreliable, and there <i>unreliable</i>. Characters like Athena and Meb and... Okay, most of the good ones - are realistically unreliable. They make sense. We can see what they can't see, like Athena being so far in De Nile she can't see what's in front of her face, or Meb starting the book being very naive and utterly inexperienced in life in general.<br /><br />Then there's the ones who'll tell you one thing and be another, or worse, the <i>author</i> will tell you one thing and the character will be another. That is a defenestration offense involving the highest window available, lots of broken glass, and preferably the author in person.Kate Paulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034983693134240754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-31686637780539114912009-09-02T20:29:21.640-04:002009-09-02T20:29:21.640-04:00The character has to be unreliable in a r/e/a/l/i/...The character has to be unreliable in a r/e/a/l/i/s/t/i/c/ believable and predictable fashion. <br /><br />Umm, taking for instance, Ivan Vorpatril. The reader automatically corrects for his general dirty-old-man-in-training attitude, and his reactions to older female authorities. We can then appreciate his uniquely Ivanesque reactions.<br /><br />Anyone, male or female who has people throwing themselves at their feet, and still thinks themselves unattractive, needs a serious explanation. Mental illness, a history of being the victim of abuse, a large fortune that people have been sucking up to him for since he was five years old. _Something_ needs to explain the disbelief in the Real World.<br /><br />Of course, I've argued with people who believe all sorts of weird things. UFOs, Crop Circles, Planet X . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-83196850965839179752009-09-02T19:30:52.518-04:002009-09-02T19:30:52.518-04:00Don't forget Christie's "Endless Nigh...Don't forget Christie's "Endless Night" probably one of her best ever book imo.<br /><br />You are right about needing hints about the how unreliable the narrator is and it is a fine line between popping up neon signs with "Unreliable" on them and hints so subtle that they can be easily missed. I have found myself a few times halfway through a book when I realise that things aren't as the narrator makes them seem. Half the time I stop reading and start poring through the book looking for other clues I may have missed.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290731721638936110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-65985410274013744682009-09-02T16:25:56.286-04:002009-09-02T16:25:56.286-04:00An unreliable narrator is interesting, It creates ...An unreliable narrator is interesting, It creates a mystery within the character to unravel as the story unravels.Rowena Cory Daniellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995983965583233914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-72788946273907240792009-09-02T15:34:04.594-04:002009-09-02T15:34:04.594-04:00Sarah,
I shudder to think what would have been le...Sarah,<br /><br />I shudder to think what would have been left in my head if I'd spent six months with Athena in it.C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-38847139628147728372009-09-02T15:23:54.823-04:002009-09-02T15:23:54.823-04:00Chris,
You didn't spend six months full on wi...Chris,<br /><br />You didn't spend six months full on with the damne in your head...<br /><br />And I fully agree on Meb.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-4455321095009112822009-09-02T15:23:25.373-04:002009-09-02T15:23:25.373-04:00Sean,
You're a reprobate when it comes to you...Sean,<br /><br />You're a reprobate when it comes to young, nubile, naked women. Sorry, it pains me to tell you so, but the truth must be faced.Sarah A. Hoythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478124095732219352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-67346384981333750732009-09-02T11:04:53.030-04:002009-09-02T11:04:53.030-04:00I'm with Wolfie with the exception that I make...I'm with Wolfie with the exception that I make no bones about certain things bearing on my likes. ;) I will say, Sarah, that you have a pentient for creating characters that are quite a lot of fun to analyze. I'm about halfway through DST now and I, like Athena, am practically clawing for her to get out of Eden, even though *I* know what would have happened if she had succeeding in doing that thing with the thing in the maintenance thing. :)<br /><br />Meb in Dragon's Ring is one of the best portrayals of a character who grows throughout the course of the story that I can think of.C Kelseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4940224740718934743.post-21982553906173388642009-09-02T10:40:26.204-04:002009-09-02T10:40:26.204-04:00Hey! I LIKE Athena! The fact that she's nubile...Hey! I LIKE Athena! The fact that she's nubile, hawt, and wears next to nothing has no bearing on that at all. *wholly contrived innnocent look*Da Curly Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07631427436506831892noreply@blogger.com